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Converting XT front Hub from 9mm to 15mm


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#1 Driesman

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 09:01

Hi

Need some info please if you may?

It it possible to convert Shimano XT weelset M775 from a 9mm QR, to a 15mm axel?

Happyness!

#2 Tankman

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 09:23

You mean without buying a new hub & spokes and having it rebuilt?

No

Edited by Tankman, 21 June 2012 - 09:24 .


#3 splat

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 07:14

I dont think you can convert Shimano bubs
Hope, Chris King, Stans & maybe Industry 9 have adaptors that you swap out.

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  • Hope Pro 2 QR15 conversion kit.jpg

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#4 Tankman

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 09:11

 splat, on 22 June 2012 - 07:14 , said:

I dont think you can convert Shimano bubs
Hope, Chris King, Stans & maybe Industry 9 have adaptors that you swap out.

No Shimano cant be converted but you can add Mavic Crossmax 29er, Easton and Fulcum to that list.
To avoid tears double check before buying, its mostly only the top model wheels that can be converted.

For a very long time I was under the impression that Shimano does not manufacture a 15mm ThruAxle, but it has been hiding right under my nose on a Pinarello FV5.  This bike was released late 2010 as a 2011 model, so I dont know what connections our Italian friends have better than we do?

And this is on a standard M775 XT wheelset.  The hub is M778

shimano thru axle.jpg

#5 covie

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 09:17

 Tankman, on 21 June 2012 - 09:23 , said:

You mean without buying a new hub & spokes and having it rebuilt?

No

I'm sure ive seen converters on CRC
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#6 CAAD4

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 09:19

Converted my Hope hubs last night. Took 45 seconds.....
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#7 splat

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 09:29

 Tankman, on 22 June 2012 - 09:11 , said:

No Shimano cant be converted but you can add Mavic Crossmax 29er, Easton and Fulcum to that list.
To avoid tears double check before buying, its mostly only the top model wheels that can be converted.

For a very long time I was under the impression that Shimano does not manufacture a 15mm ThruAxle, but it has been hiding right under my nose on a Pinarello FV5.  This bike was released late 2010 as a 2011 model, so I dont know what connections our Italian friends have better than we do?

And this is on a standard M775 XT wheelset.  The hub is M778

shimano thru axle.jpg

i think Fox partnered with Shimano to creat the QR15 standard.
They have SLX, XT & XTR hubs for 15 & 20, but no converters. And most of them are centrelock only as well. So silly!

Several other manufacturers including DT went the convertable route.
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#8 patches

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 09:36

All the listed brands that CAN convert have one thing in common...

Sealed cartridge bearings.

Shimano uses cup & cone (no idea why they insist on living in the dark ages). But basically the fact that the shimano QR is cup & cone is what restricts it from being converted.

Edited by patches, 22 June 2012 - 09:36 .

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#9 DJR

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 07:14

 patches, on 22 June 2012 - 09:36 , said:

All the listed brands that CAN convert have one thing in common...

Sealed cartridge bearings.

Shimano uses cup & cone (no idea why they insist on living in the dark ages). But basically the fact that the shimano QR is cup & cone is what restricts it from being converted.
Finally, a good answer. :thumbup: Now I understand it for the first time. Simple, should have been able to figure it out myself.

#10 cpt armpies mayhem

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 07:41

 DJR, on 22 June 2012 - 07:14 , said:

Finally, a good answer. :thumbup: Now I understand it for the first time. Simple, should have been able to figure it out myself.

dummy! :clap:
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#11 Skylark

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 08:03

I still have no clue why shimano uses ball and cup or whatever its called , no way in hell that beats sealed bearings , esp not on mtb hubs riding in mud and taking drops etc. What were they thinking .... Oh wait its probably a "financial" reason , one that does not benefit anyone other than shimano.

But still what archiac technology - I can remember 18yrs ago getting a supa dupa new fangled Bmx wheel with sealed bearings. The thing annihilated any ball and cup hub i'd seen or owned up till that point , it spun for ever and worked hassle free for the next couple yrs of hard abuse - the best ball and cup hubs were positively lame in comparison , even if they started out well their unsubstantial seals had them grinding in days...
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#12 Johan Bornman

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Posted 23 June 2012 - 11:08

View Postpatches, on 22 June 2012 - 09:36 , said:

All the listed brands that CAN convert have one thing in common...

Sealed cartridge bearings.

Shimano uses cup & cone (no idea why they insist on living in the dark ages). But basically the fact that the shimano QR is cup & cone is what restricts it from being converted.

No.

A cartridge bearing or a cup and cone bearing could have an ID that's too small for the 15mm standard. The two issues are unrelated. Previous-generation American Classic wheels for instance use cartridge bearings and don't have a large enough ID (internal dimension)  to accept a larger axle. Modern Shimano wheels have cup and cone bearings and are large enough to accept a 15mm standard.

Don't confuse the issue.

Secondly, the seal has nothing to do with it either. You can unsealed and sealed cartridge bearings just like you get sealed and unsealed cup and cone bearings.
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#13 Johan Bornman

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Posted 23 June 2012 - 11:12

View PostSkylark, on 22 June 2012 - 08:03 , said:

I still have no clue why shimano uses ball and cup or whatever its called , no way in hell that beats sealed bearings , esp not on mtb hubs riding in mud and taking drops etc. What were they thinking .... Oh wait its probably a "financial" reason , one that does not benefit anyone other than shimano.

But still what archiac technology - I can remember 18yrs ago getting a supa dupa new fangled Bmx wheel with sealed bearings. The thing annihilated any ball and cup hub i'd seen or owned up till that point , it spun for ever and worked hassle free for the next couple yrs of hard abuse - the best ball and cup hubs were positively lame in comparison , even if they started out well their unsubstantial seals had them grinding in days...

You are also confusing seals and cup-and-cone designs. The two are unrelated.

A good cup-and-cone bearings is good enough for MTB use and previous generation Shimano hubs stood up to wet use. However, they lost the plot when the newer over-sized axles came along and they skimped on the seal's engineering.

As for wheels that spin forever, you're confusing the issue here as well.

A new cartridge bearing (with seals and internal grease) has quite a bit of resistance. This resistance comes from two sources - the seal itself that makes contact with the race and, the grease. A ball that rolls through a river of grease experiences significant resistance, hence the tight feel of a new cartridge bearing.

Once the seal has worn down and no longer makes contact, the grease has escaped to such an extent that the balls no longer plough through grease and the bearing spins freely. This bearing is on its last legs. The concept is counter-intuitive.
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#14 droo

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 02:56

View PostSkylark, on 22 June 2012 - 08:03 , said:

I still have no clue why shimano uses ball and cup or whatever its called , no way in hell that beats sealed bearings , esp not on mtb hubs riding in mud and taking drops etc. What were they thinking .... Oh wait its probably a "financial" reason , one that does not benefit anyone other than shimano.

But still what archiac technology - I can remember 18yrs ago getting a supa dupa new fangled Bmx wheel with sealed bearings. The thing annihilated any ball and cup hub i'd seen or owned up till that point , it spun for ever and worked hassle free for the next couple yrs of hard abuse - the best ball and cup hubs were positively lame in comparison , even if they started out well their unsubstantial seals had them grinding in days...

Been running XT cup and cone hubs for years (second hand 4 years ago) and have never had an issue. Stripped one after 3 years of CT mud and gunk and the (original green Shimano factory) grease was uncontaminated. I would have gone through several sets of sealed bearings in this time.

The only bearings on these hubs that aren't serviceable are the freebody bearings, but the body is freely available and east to replace.

#15 Skylark

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 06:29

View Postdroo, on 25 June 2012 - 02:56 , said:


Been running XT cup and cone hubs for years (second hand 4 years ago) and have never had an issue. Stripped one after 3 years of CT mud and gunk and the (original green Shimano factory) grease was uncontaminated. I would have gone through several sets of sealed bearings in this time.

The only bearings on these hubs that aren't serviceable are the freebody bearings, but the body is freely available and east to replace.

Not sure what crap quality sealed bearings you been using!!
I've had outstanding service from my Hope hubs with cartridge bearings....

But to be honest I have only ever used Deore cup and cone mtb hubs and they weren't to great , XT are no doubt rather decent but I really can see no logical reason how cartridge bearings can be beaten by cone and cup.

There must be a good reason why cartridge bearings are so widely used in high load extreme conditions for the majority of the bearing locations in precision engineered goods.
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#16 Skylark

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 06:38

View PostJohan Bornman, on 23 June 2012 - 11:12 , said:


You are also confusing seals and cup-and-cone designs. The two are unrelated.

A good cup-and-cone bearings is good enough for MTB use and previous generation Shimano hubs stood up to wet use. However, they lost the plot when the newer over-sized axles came along and they skimped on the seal's engineering.

As for wheels that spin forever, you're confusing the issue here as well.

A new cartridge bearing (with seals and internal grease) has quite a bit of resistance. This resistance comes from two sources - the seal itself that makes contact with the race and, the grease. A ball that rolls through a river of grease experiences significant resistance, hence the tight feel of a new cartridge bearing.

Once the seal has worn down and no longer makes contact, the grease has escaped to such an extent that the balls no longer plough through grease and the bearing spins freely. This bearing is on its last legs. The concept is counter-intuitive.

Johan you are quoting me out of context , the weight of the wheel will surely overcome the resistance of the seal and grease even when fresh and allow the wheel to rotate in a relatively free manner. And if that same wheel is spun with youthful vigour it would not doubt spin for a relatively extended period of time , which to my young mind could have been interpreted as being forever!
:)
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