63 replies to this topic Post Order

[Caerus]

Karma Chameleon

[Tankman]

I skriked my gat off when I picked this little dude up, he made one hell of a weird screeching noise!

Edited by Tankman, 25 January 2012 - 07:25 .

[Wayne Potgieter]

HeartCoppi, on 24 January 2012 - 09:41 , said:

ppfff, ok then...
couple of points that need sufficient doubt to tilt things as you 'read' it:
(*) the owner of a "beloved pet" (of 2 years)is willing to "discard" for no compensation to someone he knows. Take into consideration that this is Wayne's friend.
We hereby make the staement that Wayne's friend had taken no consideration of the wellbeing of his good per and investment. Wayne's friend is assumed incompetent in this particular judgement?
(*) The 'would-have-been' recipient/ beneficiary is 'unworthy' or 'unqualified' to provide the "pet" with a perfectly good home? I also assume that after some service or period of employ, that the "maid" is possibly knowledgeable in the dietary requirements and general care of the "pet" and may have been a persuading factor in the decision to nominate the "maid".
(*) I maintain that 'the cham' was purchased for personal gain. Affectionate owners generally assign "pets" with a name. The 'pet' is referred to by its name and not by terms such as: "the cham". We have yet to be introduced to the name of "the cham". I do suggest that the animal was purchased impulsively to amuse a child... which is no reason to buy a "cham".

Thanks for your points.

Perhaps i need to make myself even clearer...

In my first series of posts, i mentioned this mate of mine moved into a flat...why do you assume he has kept the same maid? he has moved from Kempton to Krugersdorp. Thats a bit far for his old maid to commute...wouldnt you say? so no, its a new maid and she is not a herpetologist.

Yes my son is amused greatly by Dragon (check the original post. thats his name) but that is not the reason for buying it.

As for species, it is confirmed to be a Veiled Chameleon, or otherwise known as a yemen chameleon.

Unfortunately, these are not native to RSA, however, they do well here in our climate with the right care.

As for his "endangered status" he is classed as "Least concern" by the IUCN - the same category as house mice, humans and honey bees.

Again, i do not condone the capture/breeding/sale of exotic animals.

/i would happily hand this little dragon over to someone well versed and proficient at the care of these particular guys...but alas, my search for knowledgable people (in particular on TheHub) is ...well dissapointing to say the least and i am not about to just hand him over to anyone without first being sure of there credentials and intentions.

No one has come forward with current first hand knowledge of these guys.

I suppose my best course of action is to contact the Vet's as per Slow's response (thank you) and see where that leads me.

I must point out, that my idea of a "PET" is something i can interact with and that is not enclosed in a enclosure such as this..ie dogs, cats etc.

My intention is not to profit from this creature. If anything, it is to broaden my sons knowledge of the world and take care of an unwanted animal.

I agree that this guys should never have been bought in the first place, demand creates an industry (one i do not support) but as myself and many others have pointed out...here we sit with a nice harmless "Dragon" that needs a good home and to be looked after properly.

Bitching and moaning about the quality of my friends decisions and whether it is ethical for the trade of exotic species to continue etc etc etc, will not help this situation.

[Wayne Potgieter]

The Drongo, on 24 January 2012 - 09:07 , said:

Hey Wayne

Dr T is out of the country at the moment - chasing chameleons - until the end of Jan.

Hopefully will hear from her upon her return.

I am suspecting this chap is a Veiled Cham, but am not an authority by any means. He/she seems to be looking healthy so continue doing what you are doing.

In order to allow some hydration use a sterilized spray bottle to mist water onto some of the larger leaves. Most chams do not drink from standing water.

As soon as i hear I will let you know.

Awesome, thanks, eagerly await her return

Yes, i use the spray method to keep the vegetation moist, twice a day were my instructions.

There is a humidity meter inside the enclosure to monitor the amount of humidity, and i try and keep that as stable as possible.

[Wayne Potgieter]

Slowbee, on 24 January 2012 - 11:31 , said:

Wayne

Please contact RadiokopVet Clinic in Roodepoort, Dr Colin van Rensburg and Dr Philip Stapelberg. They are two specialist exotic animal vets. They are also trying to build a database of chameleon owners, and so do research on pet chameleons. Here is the web address, and if you click on the exotic tab, you will see two pic examples of they type of animals they deal with. They also have a picture published in the latest "A day in the life of a South African Veterinarian", published by the SAVA.

http://www.radiokopvet.co.za/

I can tell you now, your worry will always be skin diseases and respiratory diseases (pneumonia is a regular one in snakes as a reptile). They are usually most at risk when they shed their skin, as most people want to help "peel" the skin off, or they dont have enough foliage and branches for the skin to come off (but I dont think you have that worry judging by your photo's). Try not keep him covered, as it is humidity that is both your friend and enemy. But call up the vet's, make an appoinment, cross the border from Boksburg to Roodepoort, it will be a worth while journey.

i am sending them an email(address is on the webpage) with my particulars as well as the details of Dragon and his enclosure...will also share photographs....thanks for the link.

[ichops]

Since crows moved into our area our chameleons have all but disapeared - any one keen on starting a Jihad on the crows ??? - count me in , I really dislike them they attack anything in the veld arround the Vlei where I stay , other birds, even small buck are targets !

Do I need a license to shoot the crows ? I don't think they are indigenous to our area or SA ???

[Caerus]

Wayne_Potgieter2, on 25 January 2012 - 07:52 , said:

Awesome, thanks, eagerly await her return

Yes, i use the spray method to keep the vegetation moist, twice a day were my instructions.

There is a humidity meter inside the enclosure to monitor the amount of humidity, and i try and keep that as stable as possible.

You are doing a great job

[Slowbee]

ichops, on 25 January 2012 - 08:17 , said:

Since crows moved into our area our chameleons have all but disapeared - any one keen on starting a Jihad on the crows ??? - count me in , I really dislike them they attack anything in the veld arround the Vlei where I stay , other birds, even small buck are targets !

Do I need a license to shoot the crows ? I don't think they are indigenous to our area or SA ???

dont know if the link is still valid

http://www.capenatur...persistent%5D=1&

[Starry nights]

I heard that there is a drive to ban international trade in exotic reptiles and amphibians. As RSA is a signatory to the convention that will pass this it will affect us. The reason for this is not that they may be rare and endangered in their native range (IUCN tries to control that) but that they may outcompete or hybridize with local species where released. We may therefore end up like Australia where it is illegal to keep exotic reptiles in captivity.

[The Drongo]

Starry nights, on 25 January 2012 - 09:01 , said:

I heard that there is a drive to ban international trade in exotic reptiles and amphibians. As RSA is a signatory to the convention that will pass this it will affect us. The reason for this is not that they may be rare and endangered in their native range (IUCN tries to control that) but that they may outcompete or hybridize with local species where released. We may therefore end up like Australia where it is illegal to keep exotic reptiles in captivity.

And that sir will be a good day...but here is the Catch 22....

There are many dedicated and experienced breeders of many of the smaller exotic (and indig) animals that are facing extinction due to habitat loss and human pressures.
Without their dedication many of these creatures will simply disappear from their -once natural- habitats and never be seen again.

These folks, and their work of preservation, are also going to be impacted by parts of this convention, so we need to think carefully how it is implemented.

[The Drongo]

ichops, on 25 January 2012 - 08:17 , said:

Since crows moved into our area our chameleons have all but disapeared - any one keen on starting a Jihad on the crows ??? - count me in , I really dislike them they attack anything in the veld arround the Vlei where I stay , other birds, even small buck are targets !

Do I need a license to shoot the crows ? I don't think they are indigenous to our area or SA ???

Depends on the species mate.

If it is the House Crow Corvus splendens then treat as per Indian Mynah.

The other three are indigenous.

EDIT: Domestic cats are one of the greatest threats to chameleon populations.

Edited by The Drongo, 25 January 2012 - 03:18 .

[Starry nights]

The Drongo, on 25 January 2012 - 03:13 , said:

And that sir will be a good day...but here is the Catch 22....

There are many dedicated and experienced breeders of many of the smaller exotic (and indig) animals that are facing extinction due to habitat loss and human pressures.
Without their dedication many of these creatures will simply disappear from their -once natural- habitats and never be seen again.

These folks, and their work of preservation, are also going to be impacted by parts of this convention, so we need to think carefully how it is implemented.

As far as I am aware this will apply to the pet trade - good zoos and conservation breeders will probably not be affected. That said most places that breed wildlife in captivity seldom or never get their animals back into the wild where they belong (although they make like this does happen). There are a few examples of where captive breeding has saved species but this is not the pet shop breeder type. Animals bred by these people are often hybridised, inbred or have been so conditioned to captivity they can't survive in the wild anymore anyway.

Edited by Starry nights, 25 January 2012 - 03:29 .

[MeridaHFS]

Wayne, my sympathy to you. Seems like whenever one tries to do something good there will always be the sceptical ones trying to shoot you down and find fault where there is none.
Seems you're going through a lot of effort and trouble to ensure this little guy gets the best treatment and life!
To those that are so negative and opinionated - what have you done lately to help a small creature?

Water off a ducks back I always say

[The Drongo]

Hi :-)

Yes it looks like a Veiled to me. A number of pet shops have permits to import non-native species of chameleons, so the likelihood is that the sale was legal. One does, however, need a permit to capture and keep any native species of chameleon.

I know there are several sources on the internet providing info on how to keep chameleons. I don’t keep any myself, so in fact, Im not the best one to ask. However, I do know that there are a few important things they need. Hydration is one, and a special UV lamp for reptiles is the other. Because they are kept inside, they need to have the special lamps in order to “simulate” the suns rays. Crickets should be ok for food, but they (the crickets) need to be dusted with “Repta-vite” (not sure of spelling) which is a diet supplement. Also, I believe air flow is important, but it looks like the chameleon is in a mesh cage already, so that should be ok. Whatever you do, don’t release it into the wild.

Its great that you rescued him, but I agree totally with your sentiment. You are likely looking at a 5-10 year investment here.. depending on how old the animal was already. Best of luck… !

Krystal

Wayne. Got reply from Krystal. Hope that helps.

[GrubScrew]

Seems to be a healthy looking chameleon =]. I have iguanas and bearded dragons . If its not indigenous u can 9/10 keep it, if was local not so much even a garden bird or lizard not allowed if from here. Bear in mind most of these lizards have been captive bred for generations and prob wouldnt last long fending for themselves. I have a friend who owns a private nature reserve in linbro park.. 650 animals mostly monkeys and marmosets .. costs him about 15k+ a week on food.
U want to make the inclosure semi tropical depending on the chameleon in summer , u can buy a mister. Maybe a towel around the cage or heating mat in winter.
Find out what chameleon it is first can range from woodland to tropical areas..
Nice 1 enjoy .. and if u get bored rather sell then neglect.He will prob gladly take any orphans .

[GrubScrew]

Sorry didnt read all other replies . If i repeated anything sorry. If its veil quiet pet shop common shouldnt be much to it if cage set up right, get sum calcium powder ,dust prey with it. Hands down silkworm best live prey for reptiles. Higher calcium and protein content then all . If u using crickets or mealworms gut load them so they not hollow shells.